Neglect,and castles made of sand.

[Feralchild]

Personally,I do not consider it good practice to simply throw any sort of changework techniques at people with much in the way of neurological deficits.
Whilst it may be impractical in terms of the time and complexity involved to do a great deal in the way of building in neurological structures where client work is concerned,and tends to be more difficult in adulthood,I believe that it important to ensure that as much of the neurology as possible is functioning.
I think that the quick fix mentality is becoming far too prevalent in changework.
It is to be remembered that the human mind is a complex system and functions much better if there are at least rudimentary capacities throughout the whole system.
In cases where there is a considerable amount of neglect it would be wise to have a specialist carry out an assessment as marked deficits in the system can often create a lack of objectivity,and clients should be supervised if attempting to do any meaningful degree of self-work.
I believe that there are a great many people who are in need of learning to walk before they can run,and often it is actively dangerous not to do so.

[Feralchild]

Though I'd agree that fuller neurological development can occur once constrictive structures are dissipated,these structures are often are maintained,along with a great deal of problems,if the persons neurology is not sufficiently developed to allow a proper flexibility of respones to the world.
Frankly,I,m sick of seeing people who are insufficiently objective to begin with, supercharging their self-delusions with powerful changework techniques and giving themselves a designer mental illness.

[Steve Saunders]

Hmmn, strong views - one thing emergence is NOT is change-work, it simply expands the consciousness, which is why I suggested some teaching as to the world around. And yes I agree the quick fix mentality is a big issue.

[Feralchild]

Emergence is one thing,the work which would best be done beforehand quite another.There are far too many people failing to establish an appropriate degree of functionality before moving on,and I am getting tired of seeing dishonest nonsense spread over the internet.Being too weak to deal with reality is being too weak to deal with reality,and nothing more.
Qualities cannot exist in the abscence of their opposites;"sensitivity" is one thing,but if the end result is an unbalanced emotional overindulgence,then it becomes dysfunction,for anyone who has not yet grasped the fact,there was a very good reason for Steven posting the bit about Freudian defence mechanisms.

[Corrie van Wijk]

Hi Bob,
" ... neglect doesn't happen in such nice discrete events, rather it occurs over time, for example never, or very infrequently be held & comforted. Or perhaps being humiliated in school for a decade or more, which could be repeated discrete events, or a continuous attitude that you are stupid, ignorant, and will never learn.

Recovery, also seems to me to have a different focus. Finding the illusive negative message is more challenging, but correcting it is more habit building... Learning to stop for a moment, interrupting your automatic habits, and ask "What do I really want now"? requires breaking one deeply ingrained habit, making a new choice, and repeating that new behavior over, and over, and over until it becomes a new habit."

Thank you for formulating this kind of therapy: breaking the habit of automatic response is a start.

F: "neglect in children and adolescents can have a dramatic effect on the neurological development of the person. To my mind, the standard approaches may not be entirely useful if the person concerned has notable deficits in certain areas, and may require some form of skills training to address the deficits. In the abscence of preexisting problems, it should be possible to get a reasonable idea of what needs to be addressed by correlating the time(s) at which neglect occured with which aspects of psychological functioning should be developing at that age." What do you mean by 'standard approaches'? How do you note the person has 'deficits'?. How do you know in which areas? What areas have you? How would 'skills training address the deficits'? How do you know 'pre-existing problems are absent'? How do you know when 'neglect occurred'?
And when you ['correlate the time(s) at which neglect occurred with aspects of psychological funtioning that should be developing at that age'], then what happens?

[Steve Saunders]

Hi Corrie,

My perspective, is the Feralchild is proposing that we, the clean community, have our own theory of psychology, covering both developmental and constructionist in nature, to underpin the therapeutic work professionally. I wholeheartedly agree, which is why I have my theory from physics on the constructionist side, and why I have been working with Tania Korsak and her developmental model because they align and make
so much more sense, together, of the whole human experience, albeit from the human development perspective.

What then happens by correlating this kind of information is more informed choices as to how we work with people, whether we do, and greater clarity on when to teach, when to offer a process, when to just be with the person, etc.

[Corrie van Wijk]

F: "neglect in children and adolescents can have a dramatic effect on the neurological development of the person."

Rien van Ijzendoorn of our Leiden University will publish an article in Biological Psychiatry this week about the connection between unprocessed loss and trauma and epigenetic changes in a gen that influence its activity (after the primairy structure at conception): a methylgroup (a carbon atom with three hydrogen atoms) gets glued to certain building blocks of the dna.

During the development cells get specialised and that memory is hard to reverse. Also other chemical changes can imprint a cell.

Experiments in rats have shown that an indifferent style of raising, comparable to neglect in people, has a lifelong effect on them. This causes the gen for the glucocorticoid-receptor, that plays a role in the stress-system, to be methylised, which changes the feedbacksystem for corticosteron in their brains forever.

Studies in humans have revealed that the hypocampus of people who committed suicide is significantly more methylised than those of control groups.

There is also a correlation of the serotonine-transporter-gen, that plays a role in depression, being methylised and the degree in which trauma has been processed.

So I wonder if " some form of skills training to address the deficits" would work. Also, 'aspects of psychological functioning that should be developing at that age' may not be able to be recovered at all, since there is a critical period for establishing them.

Source: Maarten Evenblij: "Wie als kind wordt mishandeld, wordt in zijn genen geraakt", Volkskrant 3 juli 2010.

[Steve Saunders]

Did I post a Gorilla, Corrie? :-))) Am in Mexico where it is cold and rainy and damp, and i've only brought summer clothing ... oh well, meanwhile ... I believe these chemical things can be undone, given what I've seen in brain damage reverses with car crash trauma victim and others. Witnesses/former victims who can testify. Lab results to show shifts in body toxicity.

[Corrie van Wijk]

'brain damage reverses' ... 'shifts in body toxicity': there is hope, and the more we work together the better the results for clients. I know how David knew how to access these experiences and so do you.