You and me

[Steve Saunders]

and when 'my pursue of the storyteller' ...

who is doing the pursue-ing?

is there anything else about 'my pursue'?

what kind of pursue could the pursue be?

what kind of relationship could there be between the 'my' and the 'storyteller'?

S-ing

[Corrie van Wijk]

"and when 'my pursuit of the storyteller' ... who is doing the pursue-ing?": I am.

is there anything else about 'my pursuit'?": I think it is relevant.

"what kind of pursuit could the pursuit be?": when having a choice between clean questions, I'd consider the one that involves the storyteller rather than the story.

"what kind of relationship could there be between the 'my' and the 'storyteller'?": I'm interested in them.

[Steve Saunders]

Thanking Corrie,

the storyteller is at least metaphorically looking at a storybook, reading and telling, the audience is listening
in the inner child world, the parent or the child could be holding the book, and scaling will get to that real-scaled world

do we move adjacently from the story or go direct to the teller?
in a clean pursuit one move adjacently, in rapsi one goes straight for the teller. both are clean depending on the perspective of the asker.

there is the history of story, there is the space between the story and the teller, there is the history of the teller, there is the relating between,

I still wonder why the teller though?

The search for the pronoun, was made fairly obsolete with the telling of the story. The telling of the story is becoming obsolete in the understanding of the situation: ways of attaining "right understanding" more directly.

The result of finding the teller is what? Because that end-benefit is what is really desired. And that marks the move from Grovian to Holigral perspectives on effective facilitation. ;-)

Steven

[Steve Saunders]

I posted a reply and it disappeared into the vapour-ether-void as if it never existed.
It's annoying because it was pretty good, and in my system when its gone its gone ... no idea left.
It was something about the storyteller - many ways ... anyway, as it is.

And when having a choice between clean questions how do you know which question involves the storyteller rather than the story?

Steven

[Corrie van Wijk]

I don't. It depends. A pronoun or a verb might be a cue.

[Steve Saunders]

if there is a pursuit and a quarry there is also a pursuer and teller of this story of "hunting-chasing-pursuing" archetypally (new word!) ...

S

[Corrie van Wijk]

The story of the pursuer is like that of a shepherd, making sure the sheep don't get lost in the field.

[Steve Saunders]

do the sheep have the right to become lost ?

thanking you for being Corrie, you play a good game ...

where I think physics went wrong was this: Heisenberg said "the observer affects the experiment" ... not true: instead consider this "the observer IS the experiment" ...

love Steven

[Corrie van Wijk]

Yes they do, but as long as they are bleating, I assume they need to be heard.

"the observer IS the experiment" ...: I'll start a new thread on this one.

[Steve Saunders]

indeed, and the bleeting signals as it does ...

... you really did take your time to tell me that you know ...

[Steve Saunders]

duly shut up ... ;-))))

[Corrie van Wijk]

I'll keep an eye on you.

[Steve Saunders]

Lovely process on problem solving Corrie ... cool - I'm not replying to it, because its for others to see.

It works a beauty out here in the good 'ole usa

love Steven

[Steve Saunders]

Hi Corrie,

been reading some Mindell, and his model comes close to ours. And this has led me another way to answer your "history of stories" enquiry ...

i said at the time that i felt momentum did not correspond to spatio-temporal rules as its a different experience - eternal - and that perhaps sequence might work, ...

well, flows have other flows, adjacent flows, parallel flows, vectors have parallel, orthogonal, crossing and non-touching lines or directions ... wave functions are probabilities unmeasured until collapsed into space-time or momentum.

so mindell's god is the self lost in momentum measurement ... where, for the occidental, truly half of the life force might be stuck ... in flows, and his dreamwork is a great way to reconnect to the selves lost in flows - just found a baby me in a song flow ... good stuff - will be playing with this on the Mexico retreat ;-)))


love Steven

[Corrie van Wijk]

"Mindell's dreamwork is a great way to reconnect to the selves lost in flows": it seems to me that being in a flow is the best possible way of conncecting to oneself; I would suppose that a flow being interrupted would cause a momentum self to be disconnected, so the teller gets lost and the story can't be told?

Tracking back from the next storyteller or finding the previous one is as adjacent in time you can get, but accessing the dissociated storyteller through the story may be an option as well, since they may not differ in perception that much and if they do, filling the gap between the previous and the next may get you there.

[Steve Saunders]

i was not thinking of a story not being able to be told due to lostness, though I guess that is possible. More I was thinking of the signals being the attempts of that story to flow and thus complete, and align. Alignment, as per Matthew's work, would best represent flowings becoming togethering ...

"Adjacent in time" - "no and" ... momentum is no respector of time, being a parallel reality to the space-time reality, adjacent in flow, yes.
the thinking of space-time cannot unthunk the thinking of momentum ...

accessing through the story is I feel the best maybe only way of truly completing a flow ... but prove me wrong ... ;-)))))))

[Corrie van Wijk]

"accessing through the story is I feel the best maybe only way of truly completing a flow": What does the story know about the storyteller?

[Steve Saunders]

the story is the signalling of the teller, by rejoining the story the teller re-embodies, and no longer is there a separate teller, nor, of course, that story.

whereas in space or time the body has to realign spatially or temporally, in momentum (inning moving flowing ... alling needing ising flowing togethering) ...

... now that was quite a big secret to share, was it not?

I wonder if the illuminati have anything to share?

[Corrie van Wijk]

"the story is the signalling of the teller"

What would the teller like to have happen by telling the story?

"by rejoining the story the teller re-embodies, and no longer is there a separate teller, nor, of course, that story."

Telling the story makes you identify with it, or is the story identifying with you, or do you tell the story because it is all about you, or are you all about the story? How much of the story is part of you?

whereas in space or time the body has to realign spatially or temporally, in momentum (inning moving flowing ... alling needing ising flowing togethering) ... "

To me, momentum is present between past and future: only if I'm associated in the past or thinking about the future or in a space that is not about here I need to realign: from the land to the castle and the church: back home.

[Steve Saunders]

1. the teller wishes to re-embody
2. all of the above. the self and the story are one, etc
3. understanding your perceiving. for me-ing momentum is a vector, it can pass through 'here and now' or it may not, or it may be adjacent or touching, touching a flowing by being the flowing makes one flowing ...

for me trying out the dreaming signalling dreaming signalling dreaming pattern ... I found that from being good at remembering the beginnings of songs, now I have whole songs in my mind ... I have recovered the broken record ... ;-) so something is working by signalling-dreaming----

S-ing

[Corrie van Wijk]

"being good at remembering the beginnings of songs, now I have whole songs in my mind ... I have recovered the broken record ... ;-) so something is working by signalling-dreaming----": there is something about beginnings that make us remember them: perhaps because beginnings are new we pay more attention to them. Once you retrieve the beginning, the next part is associated.

If you forgot the rest of the song, it may have been shuffled. Dreaming has a way of restoring order.

[Steve Saunders]

ah, but this was ALL songs ... and now I can remember more of the flow ... by dreaming this more I will find more ... feels right.

[Olive]

Thanks both of you for sharing what you have here. Wondering if any expansion on what the dreaming signalling dreaming signalling dreaming pattern involves might be possible? Or is that too big a secret to share? :-) I'm guessing at something along the lines of dreaming, listening to and dealing with signals in lucid dreams?

[Corrie van Wijk]

Hi Olive,

Thank you for responding.

As this thread is between Steve and me, and has gone too long already, I'll start a new one with your question in it.

Since you are in our private section, may-be you could introduce yourself. Whereabouts are you?

Love,

Corrie

[Olive]

Apologies, somehow managed to overlook the fact that it is between 2 people only, although blindingly obvious now. What kind of private section is this private section? On public display, and for me private suggesting something intended for, or pertaining to, a small specific group only. Wondering who is referred to with "our" - private section. And appreciating the accepting of me posting.

Introduce myself - I am in the process of learning who/what myself is, and have always found the 'introduce yourself' request difficult to answer, though apparently routine for others. Is 'I'm you' boring yet ? :-). I'm from south west London, came across NLP after seeing a hypnosis stage show, and was interested in the personal development, modelling and improved relating to others and the world, it was offering. The 'anything is possible', change/improve anything philosophy appealed. Discovered clean from NLP, from meeting a trainer who used to work with Penny and James, and exploring. Here to explore, and still reading past threads.

Love, Olive

[Steve Saunders]

Thank you Olive. WKO private section ...? The self-modelling section of threads is for people to put their self-modelling out publicly. Ask Phil why he created it, but I found it useful to express some emergence. Then Corrie offered me a two-way self-modelling - this thread. As she says, it had run its course, but then if it is still 'running' then clearly it has not ... ;-)

I like the "I am you". This has not been 'passe' for thousands of years, I reckon.

love Steven