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Thread: David's most significant contribution

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Gloucestershire, UK
    Blog Entries

    Default David's most significant contribution

    Reading the tributes, I suspect I am not alone in being moved by the descriptions of the many ways in which David touched us individually. If you haven't yet done so, please feel free to add your personal tribute as a New Thread to the David Grove forum.

    As well as the impact of the man, there is also the impact of his ideas and work, though of course they are closely interlinked. David had so many ideas and developed them in all sorts of directions over many years. Few if any of us are fully familiar with them all.

    My question is:

    What IN YOUR OPINION was David's most significant contribution? *

    Please post your comment as a Post Reply to this thread. If enough people respond, it may become a forum of its own.

    * I realise the question is packed with metaphorical non-cleanliness. You could instead answer the technically more Clean Language-like but linguistically laborious: 'What do you like most that David had happen?'. If you don't like either of these, you could use what David referred to as "intelligence - inter + legere - in other words, 'read between the lines'" and answer the question that you think I meant to or should have asked!

    I am asking out of curiosity and to promote a debate that may inform us all. I am only choosing to ask for the 'most significant contribution' to encourage you to summarise and be brief. If there are several and you prefer not to prioritise them, do put them all in - just please be concise. If yours has already been posted, do please post yours anyway - who knows what may emerge?

    Phil Swallow
    Last edited by forumadmin; 28 January 2008 at 03:02 AM.

  2. #2
    Dafanie Guest

    Default David's impression on me personally

    Well like so many of you possibly where do I start and how do I keep it short and 'clean'

    Impossible, so I shall prattle here first.

    Year after year, in fact for 18 years, David came back to New Zealand and each time he worked with me on a personal level.

    This was always before, after or during, telling me all the things I needed manage or arrange for him. And telling me about his most wonderful new idea, that was always over my head, I could not keep up with the Genius that was David's brain.

    The amazing thing for me, was that every year, David remembered exactly what I was working on and where we had left off, last year.

    David changed my life.

    From my living, well drowning, in a black place, he enabled me to see the sun.

    I will be grateful for that forever.

    The 'clean' part of this post is - that David's incredible recall made a huge impression on me.

    Last edited by Dafanie; 07 March 2008 at 04:09 AM. Reason: tidy up

  3. #3
    Dafanie Guest

    Default David's impression on me as his New Zealand manager of sorts

    David impressed me with his amazing idea that I could first interpret his instructions, and then make everything run smoothly.

    The telephone calls at 1.00am with David excitedly telling me what he wanted me to do when I was half asleep and trying to think, will aways be remembered

    How I had to get full colour brochures designed, printed and posted in nano seconds

    Because whirlwind David was about to hit us

    This after I tried to get a grip on what he wanted them to say

    And him saying "You know what I want it to say Daf, you just make up the wording" when many times I didn't have a clue what he was talking about let alone how to word it

    Somehow I always made it happen

    Would I have believed that I would miss this I ask myself?

    Yes I think I always knew I would

    And I have a feeling someone else is dealing with things now, as he spins around the universe, free of illness and pain. And I believe, at peace at last.

    Love you, you whirlwind you, David

    The 'clean' part of this post is - David's trust in others always impressed me

    Last edited by Dafanie; 30 March 2008 at 06:39 AM. Reason: tidy up

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Washington, D.C.

    Default The I in Therapy

    For me, David’s greatest contribution was to create a method of eliciting information from the client and staying out of the way of that information (and the client!) so the client can do the work herself/himself—to get rid of the “I” of the therapist, as Steve Briggs said in his tribute.

    David trusted me that somewhere inside I knew what needed to happen next (and I still do), and that my solutions were far better than any he could come up with, because they were contained within my “problem.” I find the elegance and simplicity of the logic behind this premise astounding and revolutionary, and I think it is the genesis of many of the ideas he developed over the years.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Glastonbury, England

    Default David's most important contribution

    David realised the cause and effects of dissociation. All his work was centred upon recovering the not-here-and-now aspects of self. All his stages of work reflect different, and progressively more effective ways of achieving this. He knew that the individual person's system was unique and would find its own content way. He said he never asked a question unless he knew what the answer would be!

    Grovian Metaphor was designed to enable the inner/outer child aspect to morph into a form were they could touch the present body and thus migrate "home". Symbolic Modelling is a simplified application of this work.

    Clean Space was created to more directly access the Child Without, using spatial navigation to enable the undoing of the dissociation.

    Emergence brought together in a hugely more powerful and efficient form all of the purposes of his earlier work. The purpose of emergent question patterns was to navigate between aspects of self, thus reconnecting/migrating them even less traumatically and even more cleanly in terms of reducing practitioner input".

    David also accepted everyone as they are. He only taught or passed on what others could understand of his work, and he was indifferent to the opinion of others.

    [Note from forumadmin: remainder of this post mail and the replies to it have been moved to continue in the Emergent Knowledge forum]

    love Steven Saunders
    Last edited by forumadmin; 04 February 2008 at 12:07 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2003

    Default The artist

    Steve: "Why do people dissociate?
    Dissociation serves to: preserve that which cannot tolerate an experience, measure the experience for later understanding. It's an aspect of projected awareness, which is an ongoing continuous activity, but separated by measurement/interrupt.

    How do they dissociate?
    If the awareness is interrupted then the smooth flow of out-to-object-back-to-me is broken and that which was at object and the space in between is left as a structure. The person gets cold (shock) and eventually warms up. When the dissociation is undone they heat up with the extra returned energy - evidenced with hundreds of people.

    Where do they go when they do dissociate?
    The go into the object(s) of focus of awareness - perpetrator's eyes, wallpaper pattern, a sponge, literally whatever.

    How does one recover dissociated aspects of self?
    By navigating space/time or movement to the recorded real-world event, noticing the points of focus and interrogating them, then by navigating back to the here and now. (Hey, this is like timeline - yes, but somewhat cleaner!)"

    I think David's skill and art to do this, is his most important contribution to psychotherapy. Unlike other approaches he managed to not-trigger the experience directly, which would have reinforced it, but to smoothly and gently avoid it even more than the brain would itself, so by well-balancing and dosing 'call' it back from whence it got lost and to make A at T-1 the owner again, who is now able to deal with it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2003

    Default The most important thing I learned from David

    There is a difference between silence of grief and of not being involved. Just being with a person is a clean thing in itself.

    David would often just wait and see for a client to come up with something and was indefinitely patient with them.

    I spent many hours with him just being content with his presence, driving along the countryside in England or France, only commenting on what was happening there and then.

    So when faced with a complex problem, the kind of which you may sigh: "I don't know what to begin!", I now know there is always a 'where' and 'when' to begin.

    Starting with a 'where' I select an appropriate space, being right at or -- on the contrary -- as far away as possible from the problemspace.

    'When' is always here and now, which includes the past in the form of memories and the future in terms of plans.

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