Using 'clean' for working with vulnerable people

[Diana Gibbs]

Hi - I am doing some work for the managers of a charity that provides housing for vulnerable people (long-term homeless, drug addicts etc etc). They also want their front-line staff (ie the people who work directly with the vulnerable service users) to have some further training in handling difficult situations.
Can anyone tell me how much symbolic modelling or CL is currently being used in this sector for training those working with vulnerable people? I have some ideas on how I might introduce some material for them (through my Extreme Dialogue process) but am interested to know if others have more experience in the therapeutic field of developments in this area?

Thanks
Diana (Gibbs)

[Judy]

I was reading through the case studies on Caitlin's site yesterday www.trainingattention.co.uk, and some of the stuff there looks relevant.

I'll keep an eye out among the success stories people are sending in in response to the Clean newsletter competition, too.

[MichaelM]

Diana,
I use (elements of) Clean language and SyM with vulnerable people of all ages.
If I am going to invite metaphors, I have found it more effective to give them examples of what a metaphor is, something a basic and banal as e.g, when I'm doing something really well, it's like playing the best game of football / like the best meal you can remember having / like listening to your favourite song / like a holiday...
When I get really upset, it's like...

I might also tell them that I will ask some questions that sound strange to some people and, because I make liberal (and liberating) use of the Thinking Environment question, 'And what else, if anything, do you think, feel or want to say about?' I also alert them to the fact that I might ask that question two, three or even more times and that, some people, some times, find that strange, even uncomfortable.

I also, almost always, coach people in deep, gentle, mindful breathing because almost nobody has ever had any conversation with anyone about breathing! Oh, they might have been told to take a deep breath, or count to ten, or to relax, so they know what, but most people I ask, regardless of age, simply don't know how!

You might like to check out the sweeping generalisation; simple ask people to take two or three deep breaths; most people clutch at the air as if it's in short supply, which is a simple reality for many because they, at best, fill about a third of their lungs. Their shoulders tend to rise, their lungs constrict, their stomach muscles tense, etc.

When all that happens, the brain is deprived of oxygen, which triggers adrenalin, the amygdala kicks in, the neocortex momentarily freezes and, whatever they have been taught or told, whatever they have listened to or learnt is, in effect, inaccesible to them.

I do some or all of that and more e.g. anchoring, pacing, rapport building and other (NLP) techniques, because I rather like the notion that, if someone is going to learn something, it might be useful for them to know all about it first!

[MichaelM]

They also want their front-line staff (ie the people who work directly with the vulnerable service users) to have some further training in handling difficult situations.

Caring Confrontations is a model / process that facilitates just that and I have written an article that you might find interesting. I will post it to you if you wish. Also, by a strange quirk of synchronicity, see NLPlus below.

[robert g]

Hi,

I work as a night watch person for The Salvation Army Men & Women's Shelter, in Far Northern Australia, Queensland, Cairns.

Last night I assisted one client to generate metaphors for his group speaking topic of boundaries. He gave swimming & legal consequences as real life examples of boundaries. As he answered my clean questions I backtracked his answers, while writing them down, and that gave me time to review the previous train of thought & also devise the next clean question.

I've honed my skills as part of the Open University Practical Thinking Online Short Course with units on Clean Language & When worlds collide.

I suggest you get the clean cards and practice with other members to get used to repeating back exact phrases, also write the phrase down word perfect, that way memory isn't an issue...Major roadblock / issue.

And I know when I'm being unclean and 'putting words into someone elses mouth' as rapport takes a nose dive and only with respectful clean language do I narrowly avoid a tail spin and pull up just in time.

And remember, the more you drill, the greater your skill.

Also, James Lawley referred me to the chair of the open university short course as a source of industry knowledge, John Martin, perhaps he'd be inclined to answer your questions.

[MichaelM]

CRAFTY LISTENING

Robert,

Reflecting on your message,

I ‘pretended that I was your supervisor and that you had sent me the message prior to a supervision session.

In that pretend role, various ‘fantasies’ occurred to me, some alarm bells rang (in a muted way), and many questions and some concerns were raised. The fantasies were merely lines of possibility, triggers for hypotheses, all to be explored in subsequent supervision sessions.

I should also say that, when I do this ‘for real’ i.e. when supervisees give me written or audio or video material in preparation of a session, I jot down any questions as I go along – even though later detail might answer previous questions, dispel fantasies, restore deletions, specify generalisations, straighten out distortions, or raise yet more questions or concerns.
Concerns are about what is going on in the client's session, including the practitioner’s internal processing, which is very often outside hir awareness!

>>>As he answered my clean questions I backtracked his answers,<<<
Fantasy: excellent split attention; running present and past answers simultaneously
Fantasy: not so excellent; attention possibly divided at the cost of listening to the currently spoken answer.

>>>while writing them down,<<<
Concern: supports second fantasy; looking at writing means not looking at speaker.
Fantasy: Attention split thrice?
>>>and that gave me time<<<
Concern: if time given to >previous train of thought<, what time / attention is given to current external and interpersonal process?

>>>to review the previous train of thought<<<
Concern: possible ‘Try Hard’ ‘Be Perfect’ Drivers?

>>>& also devise the next clean question.<<<
Concern: Attention further ‘split’? More evidence of Drivers? If devising the next question >as (important little word!) questions are being answered<, [how] might that impinge on the ‘here and now’ process?

>>> also write the phrase down word perfect<<<
Concern: if the client gives a long and complex answer, how much of, say, the non-verbal material, might be lost whilst the ‘perfect’ phrases are being written down?
Concern: supportive evidence of Be Perfect Driver?

>>>that way memory isn't an issue...<<<
Concern: but attention, focus, expanded awareness might be!
Fantasy: Practitioner has limiting beliefs about retention or recall, or the ‘need’ for it with Clean Language.

>>>Major roadblock<<<
Concern: the implications and possible impact of such a metaphor on practitioner’s state.

>>>And I know when I'm being unclean and 'putting words into someone elses mouth' as rapport takes a nose dive<<<
Concern: practitioner only knows (or notices) being unclean >as rapport takes a nose dive<
Fantasy: further supportive evidence of afore mentioned concerns and fantasies?

>>>and only with respectful clean language<<<
Concern: being unclean for long enough to lose rapport to such an extent that much more is at risk i.e. >narrowly avoid a tail spin and pull up just in time.<

Although I would meld together all the concerns, assumptions, fantasies, etc., and might make reference to e.g. the Game Plan (see my previous posting), the questions I’d ask the supervisee would not be in the following sequence.

>>>As he answered my clean questions I backtracked his answers,<<<
And just before you back-tracked his answers…
And when you backtracked his answers, what did you want to have happen?

>>>and that gave me time<<<
And what kind of time did that give you?
And who is the ‘me’ that was given that time?
And just before you had been given that time…
And that’s time, like what?

>>>to review the previous train of thought<<<
And what kind of review is that review?
And what does previous train of thought know about [Client’s] answer to Clean Questions?
And, as you’re reviewing…what else is going on?

>>>& also devise the next clean question.<<<
And where might devising the next question come from?
And whereabouts is that devising?
And after you’ve devised the next question, what would you like to have happen?
And then what?

>>> also write the phrase down word perfect<<<
And when word perfect…?
And when it’s NOT word perfect, that’s like what?

>>>that way memory isn't an issue...<<<
And are there any other ways?
And when memory is not an issue…?
And when memory is an issue, what would you like…
And just before …?
And that an issue like what?

>>>Major roadblock<<<
What kind of…?
Where abouts is…?
And when…?

>>>And I know when I'm being unclean and 'putting words into someone else’s mouth' <<<
And what kind of knowing is that knowing?
And where abouts is that knowing?
And what happens just before knowing?
And what does that knowing know about unclean?
And is there a relationship between unclean and devising the next question?
And when 'putting words into someone else’s mouth', what would like to have happen?

>>>and only with respectful clean language<<<
And what does respectful know about putting words into people’s mouths?
And what does back-tracking his answers know about respectful clean language?
Am what kind of only is that only?

Notwithstanding that I do not take it for granted that I know for sure, I also trust in my highly developed intuitive abilities, so I might also make statements about what I think is probably the underlying issue.
I don't mind being way off, and might then (Clean) question the denial or challenge to check whether it comes from deep conviction that is based on the supervisee's limiting beleif, or from a deep, inner wisdom that seldom sees the light of day - perhaps because they don't trust theirintuition! I use a lot of unclean questions in supervision as well!

PS DRIVERS are internal auditory anchors for archaic survival strategies (in the ordinary and the NLP senses of the word) that keep us trapped in repetetive patterns of thinking, feeling and behaving, and hold us hostage to the past! Drivers also make it very easy to predict people's actions and reactions, including the kind of relationships they will aim for or avoid, and how they are likely to behave in counselling / coaching / training / intimate or other relationships.

[robert g]

Hello again,

Yesterday I worked with a male client who was asked to do some extra personal developmentn for his 2nd stage of accomodation.

He listed his activities, gave them how much time for each for the week, reordered them in most time to least - then relisted in order of importance to them - asked what's getting too much or not enought time?

At a point he got stuck - so I asked him for a word - symbol that was like his time usage - "Ferrari F40!!!" I asked "What condition is it in?" (keeping with his metaphor i.e. car's are usually in a condition) "broken down, needs work," So I asked about exhuast? motor? interior?

With that, I asked what he wanted it to be like - he told me he needed to start on the body - I challenged that (body vs motor/brakes/steering as body is visual & motor/brakes/steering is mehcanical / safety) - he answered it had to be road worthy (true) he told me he had to get it into condition" (no word for word in this dialogue so I'm paraphrasing motsly).

I asked with all that in mind "how can you take what you spoke about with the F40 back to your use of time?" He ansered with "don't do the stuff that isn't important - do what you've got to do!" & he wrote his personal definition of success that is nearly impossible for me to remember yet the essence was truly his.

This is a real application of Clean language & metaphor work with disadvantaged people. Very specific descriptions, no theory here!!!

Get your hands dirty & Ask Clean Questions!!!

[forumadmin]

Thanks for telling us about your session, Robert. Your big shouting letters at the end show you are passionate about Clean! Your account seems to me a good example of how coming from a Clean philosophy and using Clean-ish questions can be very effective in helping a client to self-model.

Picking up on your point about a car always being in some sort of 'condition', this kind of awareness has been referred to before (by James Lawley I think) as 'working within the inherent logic of the metaphor'.

Other examples of the inherent logic of a Ferrari metaphor might be a car body, driving, paint job, exhaust sound, steering wheel, seats, CO emissions, wheels, etc. Things which help to define it as a Ferrari .

However, remembering that we are in a constructed, virtual world when we work with metaphor, sometimes a person's metaphorical car is not like a real car. Their particular metaphorical car may fly, be made of sugar, talk, eat daisies - anything at all. Yes, usually a metaphorical car is like a real car but it's worth not getting too convinced by our own assumptions.

Note that IMO asking 'Who is in the car?' when the person has not mentioned occupants would not be working within the inherent logic because having occupants does not define it as a car. A car is still a car, even if no-one is in it. Yes, a car is still potentially a car if someone has stolen the wheels, however it can't perform the functions of a car until it gets some wheels again. So perhaps a way to define factors that are in the inherent logic of a metaphor are those that if you took them away the metaphor would cease to exist.

I wonder what would have happened if your questions had been cleaner? For example instead of 'What condition is it in?", simply asking "Anything else about THAT Ferrari F40?" a few times might have got condition information AND something else (e.g. "it's essentially a good, solid car, it's very quick but it's in poor condition").

To my mind, the issue with introducing words from our own map into the client's map is not that it in some way might injure the client but that it limits their attention at a time when there might be more learning acquired from broadening it. Also it trains their attention on something WE are interested in rather than on what may be foremost for THEM. We could end up missing something that they don't mention because the questions limit their responses.

For all these theoretical distinctions, it sounds like your client got plenty out of your interventions.

Phil

[MichaelM]

Phil,
an elegant and eloquent response!

What kind of elegant? Well, it's lucid, specific, detailed (but not over), highly informative and gently (for me) challenging me to consider how, albeit inadvertently, I might not be as clean as I might like to think I am!

And eloquent because. remembering that we are in a constructed, virtual world when we work with metaphor... it's worth not getting too convinced by our own assumptions. is an elegant example of saying much with little .(something I used to think I 'should' aspire to!). and a timely reminder for which I thank you.

[robert g]

Hello Dianna,

Enough about my clean adventures, how do you do your extreme dialogue process?

Where does it come from?

What happens when you 'do' the process?

and Anything else about the process?

Thanks.

[Diana Gibbs]

Hello Robert
My apologies I somehow failed to notice that you had replied to my thread and asked some questions. So here belatedly are some brief answers:
How do you do your extreme dialogue process?
In business and coaching situations, as conversationally as possible using the principles of staying 'clean' or neutral/objective, and using metaphor to assist with clarity of meaning. It's mainly about asking questions and doing a lot of 'live' reflecting and meta commenting.

Where does it come from?
I've constructed it as a blend of Senge's systems thinking, CL, Symbolic Modelling, NLP and other, developed over 10 years of consulting, coaching and training managers.

What happens when you 'do' the process?
People say it helps to unravel the knots and it surfaces underlying meaning or intention.

and Anything else about the process?
As a questioning technique it's also useful for performance management conversations and recruitment.
I've developed an online web-based tool for mapping one's thoughts and ideas, designed to assist teams in communicating with each other and can also be useful for telephone coaching. If you're interested I can email you the link with a log-in to experiment.

Apologies again for my absence of several months. Glad to be back in the swim!

Best regards
Diana