Metaphor: cleanforum is a body of information

[phil]

If cleanforum is a body of information...
What kind of body is it?
Is there anything else about that body?
Where is that body?
Does body have a size or shape?
It's body like what?

What kind of information is it?
Is there anything else about that information?
Where is that information?
Does information have a size or shape?
It's information like what?

When body of information, what would we like to have happen?
What would body like to have happen?
What would information like to have happen?

Phil

[webmaven]

Phil,

Your metaphor of cleanforum as body reminded me of a favorite poem by Wallace Stevens: "The Idea of Order at Key West."

Here are some of the metaphors from that poem that seem (to me) to resonate with the "body" metaphor:

Q: And if cleanforum is a body, what is its voice? And what does that voice have to say to us?

A: "She sang beyond the genius of the sea.
The water never formed to mind or voice,
Like a body wholly body, fluttering
Its empty sleeves; and yet its mimic motion
Made constant cry, caused constantly a cry,
That was not ours although we understood,
Inhuman, of the veritable ocean. "

Q: And is there anything else about voice?

"The sea was not a mask. No more was she.
The song and water were not medleyed sound
Even if what she sang was what she heard,
Since what she sang was uttered word by word.
It may be that in all her phrases stirred
The grinding water and the gasping wind;
But it was she and not the sea we heard."

Q: And what is the spirit of this voice?

"For she was the maker of the song she sang.
The ever-hooded, tragic-gestured sea
Was merely a place by which she walked to sing.
Whose spirit is this? we said, because we knew
It was the spirit that we sought and knew
That we should ask this often as she sang.
If it was only the dark voice of the sea
That rose, or even colored by many waves;
If it was only the outer voice of sky
And cloud, of the sunken coral water-walled,
However clear, it would have been deep air,
The heaving speech of air, a summer sound
Repeated in a summer without end
And sound alone. But it was more than that,
More even than her voice, and ours, among
The meaningless plungings of water and the wind,
Theatrical distances, bronze shadows heaped
On high horizons, mountainous atmospheres
Of sky and sea."

Q: And is there anything else about voice?

"It was her voice that made
The sky acutest at its vanishing.
She measured to the hour its solitude.
She was the single artificer of the world
In which she sang. And when she sang, the sea,
Whatever self it had, became the self
That was her song, for she was the maker. Then we,
As we beheld her striding there alone,
Knew that there never was a world for her
Except the one she sang and, singing, made."

Singing and creating worlds of thought and being. The body as a microcosm of the universe. Just a few thoughts.

webmaven

[phil]

Thanks, lovely poem, interspersed with your clean questions I presume?*

I particularly liked:
Whose spirit is this? we said, because we knew
It was the spirit that we sought and knew
That we should ask this often as she sang.


Made me wonder:
What kind of spirit would cleanforum like to have?
What kind of voice would cleanforum like to have... and to hear?

Phil

*Clean Literary Criticism - now THERE's a field that I reckon desperately needs Clean (says I who for a while squirmed in my chair through the (IMO) callous dismemberment of Spanish ballads and French novels)

[webmaven]

Thanks, lovely poem, interspersed with your clean questions I presume?*

I particularly liked:

Made me wonder:
What kind of spirit would cleanforum like to have?
What kind of voice would cleanforum like to have... and to hear?

Phil

*Clean Literary Criticism - now THERE's a field that I reckon desperately needs Clean (says I who for a while squirmed in my chair through the (IMO) callous dismemberment of Spanish ballads and French novels)

Hi, Phil,

I'm glad you liked the poem (interspersed with my questions)--that's not the entire thing, but I put the most relevant parts. I've been thinking about your questions over the past few weeks, and here are my answers:

1. What kind of spirit would cleanforum like to have? The spirit of David Grove--kind, open to surprises, mischievous at times, intelligent without belittling others, witty, respectful, and honest. If we can be true to this, David's spirit and his work will live on.

2. What kind of voice would cleanforum like to have? I can only speak for myself here (and this is the problem, really)--I think that there will/should always be a myriad of voices, not just one voice.

The closest thing I can get to what I have in mind is counterpoint, in the vein of J.S. Bach. "Counterpoint" as defined in Wikipedia is "the relationship between two or more voices (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Register_(music)) that are independent in contour and rhythm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm), and interdependent in harmony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmony)." Not to say there won't be dissonance on occasion; in fact, dissonance and the resolution of dissonance provides powerful development and meaning in music.

3. What kind of voice would cleanforum like to hear? A clean voice, a soft voice, a gentle voice, but a strong one as well, one that can pierce its hearers to the very core of their being by whispering in their heart of hearts.

webmaven

P.S. Maybe clean literary criticism will be my contribution to the world of clean--I don't think there are any other takers at the moment! ;-)

P.P.S. I think the very strict description of what is supposed to occur in this section may prevent others from contributing. It's hard to converse solely in clean language--kind of disrupts the flow of dialogue at times (IMO). Also, we need to be able to discuss the content (not just the process) in order to develop ideas, at least to some extent.

[phil]

P.P.S. I think the very strict description of what is supposed to occur in this section may prevent others from contributing. It's hard to converse solely in clean language--kind of disrupts the flow of dialogue at times (IMO). Also, we need to be able to discuss the content (not just the process) in order to develop ideas, at least to some extent.

Good point, thanks. I think I was still in fierce mode when I wrote that! I'll have another go at it. My intention was to experiment with having one place for clean facilitation of a metaphor and another for discussion of the content and/or the process parallel and adjacent to the facilitation. Working cleanly with a client, I try to keep my meta-comments out, permanently, even before and after the session. The difference here is that the meta-comments are welcome, just adjacent and not directly impinging. I don't know if it will work. Let's find out.

Phil