Projections

[Corrie van Wijk]

Re: EK thread, page 1

Steve: "What is the purpose of [body, emotion, dissociation, trauma]?

Body: to hold projections from not-self - memories, form, self-image, enabling interaction in the physical dream-world. Body provides the real-world aspect of the real-and-imaginary self, manifesting the required projections of others (parental DNA and thereafter)."

Hi Steve,

I'm trying to understand your concept of projections:

You mention 'projections from not-self (memories, form, self-image)' and 'the required projections of others (parental DNA and thereafter)'.

1. Can 'self' also project?
2. What aspects belong to 'self' and which to 'non-self'?
3. Why are projections of others 'required'?

[Steve Saunders]

Corrie:
1. Can 'self' also project? Steve: Yes - it mostly does.
2. What aspects belong to 'self' and which to 'non-self'? Steve: Very tough to differentiate normally and not necessarily required to know to facilitate relief - it all emerges.
3. Why are projections of others 'required'? Steve: Chaotic attractors (structure - soul service).

Well, what a coincidence. Yesterday I noted Phil’s new thread “where come from?”, and this reminded me of the fundamental sources. Gurdjieff, Freud, Jung, Erickson, NLP and David all base their work fundamentally on projection. Freud’s definition is published in terms of this “as a defence mechanism”, whereas Gurdjieff, NLP, I believe David, and I come from this point of view: “Perception is Projection” - the NLP Mantra often forgotten.

I’ll give it 6 goes to explain... ;-)

To understand projection I have an article written but its not easy, I’ll mail it, though. Here I will also try to get across the essence of what I know. It’s not a belief for me, its an experiential reality that I and others share and experience. The metaphor analogy is that “I am Sun and Moon, as are you”. I project out into “the not self - the other” and see in reflection back the real me. In myself I feel the projections of others or a void.

When I say “you” I’m talking to myself - the message is for me. When I say "I" the message is for you. When I hear “I” the message is for me and when I hear “you” the message is for you. Unless someone deliberately manipulates the pronoun usage - and as I can feel that when it happens - I have a clear sense of the true back-to-front nature of the world. This is why accepting others as they are is so key - they’re only showing me what I don’t allow or acknowledge or understand of myself. And if I truly accept and understand that then they another person will not show the behaviours I accept; only the ones I’ve yet to accept as me - cued by the attractors of the structure, which are the locations and information of the aspects of self. Mutual-coupling between people happens because both have equal learning to make of the other. I have as much to learn from you as you do from me.

Now herein lies the rub. Projections come from past, present or future. Stuck projections from the past dominate most people’s experience, thus they identify with and own the feelings inside their body. Once the past has been significantly released then the projections felt are predominantly from other people in the present. So by example, what you feel about me will be a combination of: my present projection and the triggers from the past held in you relating to your perception of me.

A conceived embryo is a blank slate - tabula rasa, forming the body required by the parents and culture around - held within the emotional projection field of “the other”. As the child grows up the child projects ever-more themselves, but this is not necessary. The limitation of NLP is that it assumes there only is projection - we do not all have to be magicians! Mind comes into being when something is not understood or when shocked (really not understanding is another form of shock) - the system records the moment(s) in either location or movement or both, thus cooling down, thus needing to gain more warmth thus the heating as the structure is undone in stage 5 of 6.

Let me try again on projection; I can only see in you that of myself. Whoever is the real Corrie I can never know; every single assumption and judgment I make is only about my projected “you” placed at “Corrie”. If I’m irritated in trying to communicate its because I do not yet understand this other aspect of me; its a signal of your irritation that I’m not communicating in a way you can understand - i.e. I still do not understand how to communicate with you so you can understand these concepts. And I’m sorry I’m having this difficulty; I am doing my best!

So, a sun radiates out light, the light hits a moon and interacts with the moon. Reflections come back. The sun cannot see itself, only the reflections from the moon which are the effect of the sunlight reflecting off the moon, thus more complicated than a pure mirror. A person who has largely completed their personal work is largely a pure mirror if they so choose; so the sun gets to see itself far more clearly in such a person. The consequence though is that this can so enrage the sun that it wants to kill the said moon. Not so healthy for the moon! Thus the more angry a person becomes with me the better the mirror I’m being for them.

The feelings inside are the interaction of the moon with the suns of others. However, as people fragment and build structures, internal sun-moon occurs and also the past signals held in the system are triggered, thus its no longer clear or at all easy to differentiate or navigate - in fact its pointless - just resolve what is found through navigating and then when clear it all becomes clear.

Well, let me know if this helps at all, or I’ll try another way ...

Cheers

Steven

[Corrie van Wijk]

Corrie: "3. Why are projections of others 'required'?"
Steve: "Chaotic attractors (structure - soul service)."

Hi Steve,

Thank you for trying to explain this to me and using my metaphors for it: that makes it easier to relate to.

This reminds me of the Dutch model 'Kernkwadranten' (google for it): it's about allergies, pitfalls, strengths and ? (forgot the fourth) and how they relate to eachother in a you-and-me relationship. It is often used in teamwork.

Would chaotic attractors be behavior in others that trigger something in you?

Steve: "The metaphor analogy is that “I am Sun and Moon, as are you”. I project out into “the not self - the other” and see in reflection back the real me. In myself I feel the projections of others or a void. [...]

Stuck projections from the past dominate most people’s experience, thus they identify with and own the feelings inside their body."

I recognize this: very often I am amazed of people's reactions and feel that they have nothing to do with me: it is just their interpretation of my behavior, based on previous experiences that somehow give an allergic reaction or an appreciation I feel I do not deserve.

Steve: "I can only see in you that of myself. Whoever is the real Corrie I can never know; every single assumption and judgment I make is only about my projected “you” placed at 'Corrie'."

You can only refer to things you don't know in terms of what you already do know. So it's logical that you try to understand me in terms of what you do know about you.

Steve: "The sun cannot see itself, only the reflections from the moon which are the effect of the sunlight reflecting off the moon, thus more complicated than a pure mirror."

Ah, "just to make life interesting" (James and Penny would say); my metaphor is about how I perceive this from the earth, and what happens if the earth's 'body' gets in the moon's sunshine. Only at full moon, from the earth we can see the moon shining in it's full potential, yet it depens on the sun to do so. I can never look at the sun directly, at the risk of burning my eyes.

I only have to deal with any-you if I don't understand what they are trying to point out and I somehow feel it would be of value to me to know. I know from my past experience with you that you do have interesting thoughts and far more knowledge about certain things than I do. So I think you can enrich my life and make it easier for me to live if I understand things better. And I hope that my asking you questions is of value to others.

[webmaven]

Hi, Steve,

Thanks for your reflections on projection and giving insight through a metaphor that I also could understand.

What about your sun? Is there a sun in you that sees its reflection in others' moons, or just a moon?

"So, a sun radiates out light, the light hits a moon and interacts with the moon. Reflections come back. The sun cannot see itself, only the reflections from the moon which are the effect of the sunlight reflecting off the moon, thus more complicated than a pure mirror. A person who has largely completed their personal work is largely a pure mirror if they so choose; so the sun gets to see itself far more clearly in such a person. The consequence though is that this can so enrage the sun that it wants to kill the said moon. Not so healthy for the moon! Thus the more angry a person becomes with me the better the mirror I’m being for them.

The feelings inside are the interaction of the moon with the suns of others. However, as people fragment and build structures, internal sun-moon occurs and also the past signals held in the system are triggered, thus its no longer clear or at all easy to differentiate or navigate - in fact its pointless - just resolve what is found through navigating and then when clear it all becomes clear."

And is there a dark side to this moon? I'm just curious.

webmaven

[Steve Saunders]

Well, I posted a reply here a day or so ago and its gone ...

cannot recall the exact reply, but:

all moons have a dark side and all suns radiate. As embodied wholeness grows, the sun becomes light that shines out of the eyes, and this is the dominant projection-reflection. I just met some past graduates and there had been a few projections flying around over the last 6 months; the moment the eyes met it all dissolved - lovely, as remembering-reminding happened. Same happened meeting Corrie. Judgement leads to bad experiences, total acceptance of others as they are lead to happiness.

love Steven