A Place in Space

[phil]

I have always had a sense that the Clean Space process question 'find a space' is misnamed. For me, 'space' is what we move around within and 'place' is a 'where' within that space.

Moving happens in relation to space and time: no time and matter is still; no space, no matter so nothing moving*.

So 'moving between' is 'moving between places in (or through) space'.

Thus I would prefer that the process utilised 'find a place'

AE about 'place'?
Online Dictionary: An area with definite or indefinite boundaries; a portion of space.

AE about 'space'?:
Online Dictionary: The infinite extension of the three-dimensional region in which all matter exists.

AE about moving?:
Online Dictionary: Changing or capable of changing position

AE about Dictionary?
These are not the only definitions. I chose the definitions with closest match to what those words represent to me.

Anyone else have something similar or different?

If when 'find a space' works for you, what kind of space is that space?

*I realise that in modern physics, space-time is far more complex. However like most of us, I am living in and responding 'as if true' to Newton's world. So my statements above are true to the extent that they are beliefs that repeatedly produce results that I want in my world.

[super_yacht@hotmail.com]

Without going into definitions and dictionaries, ‘place’ to me is 2 dimensional its somewhere on the aground around me. Space allows a more expensive sense and can be around me on the ground or off the ground.
I find ‘space’, allows distance as well, outside space could be a mile away (or more). There is also the linguistic tone for me. ‘pl’ace sounds short, ‘spa’ce sounds more smooth.
Regards

[webmaven]

I am much more comfortable with "find a space" because "place" seems too narrow, too well-defined, too "pinpointed," almost like I have to know exactly where (longitude and latitude) and I feel restricted by that. I also get the impression that the word "place" is much more earthbound, whereas "space" can be up in the air or anywhere, really; in another dimension altogether, even. . . .

I like the sense of freedom that the word "space" implies and the sense that I don't have to immediately define the boundaries of it but I can explore it and get to know it as I go along.

webmaven

[phil]

Thanks for those responses. I am moved (!) by the arguments for more freedom of choice for the person doing the finding and agree that as an instruction 'find a space' is freer and thus cleaner. Still a little niggle exists: for me, space is the unlimited, measureless context we inhabit and it seems wrong to ask someone to find one of them.

So perhaps my issue is with the 'a'. It implies searching for a single location, what I call a place, something that in my worldis a set of coordinates within space. When the finder stops moving, they are no longer exploring space physically. They are now in a 'place' in space, measured, dimensioned, with coordinates.

Has anyone ever experimented with 'find some space' or 'find space'?

(What was it that what they used to ask us to do in the old BBC Home service schools radio broadcast 'Music and Movement'?)

[Corrie van Wijk]

Just to make you (more) happy Phil:

In Clean Space we use A, B and C, space of A, space of B and space of C. Would it be safe to say that A is place of A, etc.?

I think you ask for 'a' space, because in the client's perception that place is somehow meaningful: you explore the room and anything you imagine outside, and decide on 'a' particular space that wants you to go to. 'Some' space will do as well I guess, but to find space feels more like you need some room, which may be a nice clean invitation for someone who is stuck or feels restricted.

[Steve Saunders]

I've tried:

Find somewhere [to be].
Find somewhere else.

Has its differences ...

Steven